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Opinion | ‘Is the Destruction the Point?’: Three Opinion Writers on Trump’s First 50 Days

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Opinion | ‘Is the Destruction the Point?’: Three Opinion Writers on Trump’s First 50 Days

Opinion columnist Michelle Goldberg and contributing Opinion writer Frank Bruni join Patrick Healy, the deputy Opinion editor, at the halfway mark of President Trump’s first 100 days in office, to reflect on how he is changing the country.

Below is an edited, condensed transcript of an episode of “The Opinions.” We recommend listening to it in its original form for the full effect. You can do so using the player above or on the NYT Audio app, Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube, iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.

Patrick Healy: This is the First 100 Days, a weekly series examining President Trump’s use of power and his drive to change America.

Michelle, Frank, I’d love to hear from each of you about an issue or person or moment that you think defines how Trump has used power during his first 50 days. Michelle, do you want to start?

Michelle Goldberg: Sure. There’s a few, but one that stands out for me is the gutting of U.S.A.I.D., because it’s illegal and because it’s so flagrantly immoral and utterly self-destructive.

During the first Trump term, I would sometimes have to catch myself because even though I thought and think that Trump is uniquely despicable and dangerous, the fact remains that if you just want to look at the number of lives lost and global damage done, George W. Bush really outstripped him. Trump is maybe a worse person, but the damage that he did in his first term was much more contained.

I think that in the second Trump term he’s changed that very quickly. Not just by taking America’s soft power and setting it on fire in all sorts of ways, but really making these abrupt decisions that are going to kill hundreds of thousands and maybe more than a million people and he’s doing it in this incredibly arbitrary, careless way.

And I just want to say something really quick before we get to Frank: I have a 12-year-old son who, as he learns more about various kinds of dark chapters in American history, can get really down on this country. So I often find myself in the strange position of trying to talk up American greatness because I don’t want him to feel despair about the country that he’s growing up in. It’s occurred to me that every single thing that I have pointed out to him as a sign of American greatness or goodness, whether that be foreign aid, whether that be our support for Ukraine, our success in welcoming immigrants and refugees, or scientific pre-eminence, everything that I thought was best about America, Trump has either destroyed or tried to destroy in less than two months.

Frank Bruni: It’s really interesting to hear you talk about that, Michelle, because I don’t have children and I feel so much despair and fear and heartache about what’s going on, and I often wonder, what do you say to children at this time? How do you maintain their optimism and their belief that they do live in a special country? So that’s fascinating for me to hear. The two things that stand out to me from the first 50 days or so are related and they have to do with a culture of intimidation that President Trump has created. I think among all that’s happened these two things seem like the clearest baby steps — or not even baby steps — toward something like autocracy.

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I think first of what happened on Day 1 — and I worry that because it happened on Day 1 in such a blizzard of activity that it’s gotten lost — but granting pardons and clemency of various kinds to the defendants in the Jan. 6 cases, that was an extraordinary and chilling thing. And what it said to those who steadfastly support him is: there will be a reward to being on Team Trump. At the same time, another thing that’s been forgotten is his withdrawal of the security details from Mike Pompeo, John Bolton and from a few others. These were people who were facing credible death threats from Iran because of their service to the United States ——

Goldberg: Because of their service to Donald Trump!

Bruni: Correct. That was so extraordinary.

I remember I was here at Duke, where I teach, and Maggie Haberman came down to do a panel, and when I asked her the question about what has surprised her, the only thing that had really surprised her, she said, and had chilled her to the bone, was the withdrawal of the security details. Because it was such an exercise of brute power.

I mentioned those two things because they’re entwined and it’s about a system of rewards and punishments that says, if you counter me, if you contradict me, if you speak against me, there will be consequences. But if you go along with me, if you do as I please, there will be rewards.

Healy: Michelle, this makes me think of your great column this week about what’s happening at Columbia University. Are Americans only safe if we’re on Donald Trump’s side?

Goldberg: I think that there’s probably a scale of exposure. Mahmoud Khalil is someone who has a green card, he’s married to an American, he’s expecting a baby soon. He was also a leader in the Columbia protests against Israel last year.

I believe that the recent arrest of an individual, which implies that someone can be detained without reason, indicates that individuals with green cards – approximately 13 million in the US – now have fewer protections than they did previously. Until recently, it was widely accepted that individuals inside the country, especially those with green cards, were entitled to the same constitutional rights as American citizens. However, this is no longer the case. This suggests that even American citizens may not be safe, as a government willing to disregard the rights of one group cannot be trusted to uphold the rights of others.

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In addition, there are clear violations of free speech occurring, as seen in cases like Ann Coulter’s remarks regarding Mahmoud Khalil. The current situation is straying into dangerous territory, where free speech is being restricted in ways that differ from the concerns raised by Trump’s supporters. The focus seems to be on demonstrating power and control, rather than upholding values or principles. This shift reflects a desire to show dominance and suppress opposition, rather than protect fundamental rights.

Elon Musk’s actions are emblematic of disruptive behavior and a desire to reshape society according to his own vision. He appears to be at odds with traditional American institutions and seeks to redefine societal norms. This disruptive approach is mirrored in the administration’s actions, which aim to provoke change and challenge established norms. Musk’s technofeudalist views align with a desire to reshape America according to his own specifications, breaking down existing structures to rebuild them in his image. The administration’s hands-off approach and reliance on supporters like Steve Bannon further highlight this shift towards a technofeudalist mindset. People became excessively complacent about entrusting such an unpredictable individual with the leadership of the most powerful nation in the world. Consequently, instead of competent government officials managing the daily affairs of the country, it now involves a group of Project 2025 enthusiasts, Elon Musk, and his unconventional group of followers.

Healy: Many refer to them as feral children, Michelle, yet I view them as creators of a new world. They are like Tolkien-loving youngsters striving to shape a society based on Musk’s ideals, even if it means risking economic stability.

Goldberg: They may understand the goal of dismantling the “deep state,” but lack comprehension of why such systems exist. Musk’s decision-making, such as reversing the termination of Ebola containment efforts, reflects this lack of understanding. It’s uncertain if they truly grasp the consequences of their actions.

Healy: Trump plays a role in this dynamic. He is both self-assured and fascinated by world-building. His desire for Greenland and inclination to let Musk and Rubio take charge raises questions about his true intentions and level of involvement.

Bruni: Trump enjoys watching Musk and Rubio clash, knowing he placed them in positions of power. The spectacle he creates is for his own amusement and public showmanship. Both Trump and Musk perceive power as a means of control and accumulation, a departure from traditional American values.

Healy: Trump’s actions defy simple categorization. The language used to describe him falls short in capturing the complexity of the situation. The sense of apathy and helplessness among many Americans is a result of the overwhelming nature of the current political landscape.

Goldberg: While historical comparisons may not be perfect, there are parallels that can help us understand the dangers we face. A lack of civic education contributes to the difficulty in explaining the significance of preserving democratic norms and institutions.

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Bruni: The magnitude of the current political climate leaves many feeling overwhelmed and desensitized. It is crucial to remember that not everyone has the luxury of closely following political developments, as daily life demands attention to more immediate concerns. I brought up Steve Bannon because he is a strong supporter of the flood-the-zone strategy, hoping that people will tune out. Healy agreed, mentioning that many people are not focused on constitutional crisis debates but may start paying attention due to economic issues. Goldberg added that although Trump’s approval ratings and polls on the economy are declining, the information environment makes it hard for people to connect Trump’s statements with their own financial situations.

The conversation then shifted to the corrupted information environment and whether Trump can shift blame and create a post-accountability era. Healy expressed concern that Trump can evade accountability and emphasized the need for effective leadership from Democrats to counter Trump’s tactics. Bruni highlighted the importance of providing a contrast to Trump’s approach, with Slotkin’s response being cited as a good example.

Goldberg stressed the need for authentic leadership that resonates with people’s feelings and concerns. She mentioned that many individuals feel a lack of leadership and direction and emphasized the importance of having a strong opposition party. Healy shared a letter from a frustrated Democrat expressing anger at the lack of action from elected officials. The situation out here is dire. Congress is not taking significant action to address what’s happening. The need for leadership and a plan to navigate through these challenging times is palpable. It may not be just one person like Bernie Sanders or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who can lead us out of this, but there is a political opportunity for someone to step up.

Democrats are facing obstacles with their limited power in Congress. While they are fighting in courts, the lack of a charismatic leader is a source of frustration. It’s not about one person, but about the lack of options available to Democrats.

Thank you, Michelle and Frank, for joining me in this discussion.

Thoughts? Email us at theopinions@nytimes.com.

This episode of “The Opinions” was produced by Jillian Weinberger. It was edited by Kaari Pitkin. Mixing by Sonia Herrero. Original music by Aman Sahota, Isaac Jones and Carole Sabouraud. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta and Kristina Samulewski. Our executive producer is Annie-Rose Strasser.

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